TJ ~ 21 years old; Darcy – 55 years old

My friend & church planting coach, Steve Laug & I, made it out a bit later in the day than we anticipated, but we still had a little over an hour to go out sharing the gospel, so we headed down to a favourite fishing spot:  Kinsington.   We met 2 folks, one we talked to for about 60 seconds and the other for about 60 minutes. 

TJ ~ 21 years old

TJ was a sharply dressed young man hanging out on a bench finishing a sandwich, and he said he was willing to answer some questions about his spiritual beliefs and background.  He said he had no spiritual background, and he didn’t have any thoughts on religion or spirituality.  There were no questions that he would ask God (though he thought about it for a moment and admitted that was a hard question).   He said that he’d really have no answer if God were to ask him “Why should I let you into Heaven?” insisting, “I’m only human.”  He rated himself an 8 on the good-o-meter scale saying, “No one is perfect.”  It seemed that TJ was simply humouring us at this point and not really engaged, so we left him a Gospel booklet saying that this might give him some food for thought, thanked him for his time, and headed on to see if we could re-cast elsewhere.

Darcy – 55 years old

A few minutes later we found Darcy enjoying the sunshine, a cigarette, and a book.  He looked like he was a few pages from the end of the book, so we interrupted politely.

“Excuse me.  I hate to interrupt you,” I said.  “You look like you have a good book going there!  We out in the community today with a questionnaire asking people to answer a few questions about their spiritual backgrounds and beliefs.  Would you have a moment?”

“Sure,” said Darcy, and he closed his book.   We introduced ourselves and Steve asked him what he was reading.  “Herman Melville’s Short Stories.” 

“Oh,” said Steve, “I just finished reading Moby Dick again. I really like Melville.”  There was an instant connection between Darcy & Steve. 

Darcy was raised Anglican, but is no longer practicing. He describes his current spiritual beliefs as a combination of existentialism, zen, & liberalism. If Darcy could ask God a question, it would be “Why?” I asked for clarification and he said, “Just ‘why?’ Why is there anything? Of course, if God exists, then that would answer that question.  But ‘why?’  What is the meaning of life?” 

When asked what he would say if God asked him about letting him into heaven, Darcy said very diplomatically, “I’ve lived a life that conforms to most religious teachings.”  He would rate himself an “8” on a scale of 1-10 re: his goodness. “I don’t want to sound arrogant.”  

I thanked him for his response to our questionnaire and asked him if I could ask him a question about his Anglican background. He said, “Sure. Go for it.”  

“Why are you no longer a practicing Anglican?  Was it a conscious decision or did you just sort of drift away.”

“It was more of a conscious decision.  When I left home, I started wrestling with the problem of evil.  It seems just like there is so much needless evil, and I don’t get how to reconcile that with a good God.” 

I told him that is a common struggle for people, even for those who consider themselves believers. I wrestle with that myself and told him that for me, understanding the crucifixion of Jesus helps:  the Bible contributes the event to both the evil will of people and to the plan of God. If God can bring good out of the crucifixion, then I can trust that he has a reason for allowing other things that I don’t understand the reasons for. 

Steve asked him if he had an issue that he had suffered with personally or if it were more just theoretical.  For Steve it has a personal edge because he has suffered through cancer. Darcy said that he has had a pretty normal life.

Steve followed that up with a question about his Buddhist beliefs: “Do they bring you comfort? At the end of the day, what do these beliefs do for you?” Surprisingly, Darcy admitted that it doesn’t bring him much comfort, and he knows that when he dies that it won’t bring him any comfort but he hopes that he doesn’t have to deal with that for some 30 years.  

Steve gentled challenged him on a few points of Buddhist beliefs, and Darcy surprisingly stated that he does have issues with them.  For example, he doesn’t believe in Nirvana, nor does he know really how they serve to guide him in life.  If he witnesses a child being abused, does he help out or is he supposed to feel nothing?  

I took the opportunity to ask him a bit more about his background with Anglicanism.  “Darcy, let me ask you a question. You obviously have some background with Christianity. What do you think of Jesus? Who do you think he is?”

“Well, I think he was a great religious philosopher. I mean, you just have to look at some of his teachings to see that.” 

“I agree, Darcy, but what do you think about his teaching in which he said things like, ‘God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life’? Or ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life.  No one comes to the Father except through me.’ Jesus seemed to say some pretty strong things that set him apart from other religious teachers.

Darcy thought about this for a moment.  “Well, I think we are all sons of God, and Jesus was talking about accessing God through his teachings.”

“Do you believe everyone is a son of God?  What about Hitler, or folks who commit acts of evil that leave you questioning God’s existence?   Surely not everyone is a son of God.”  

Darcy speculated that Hitler must have been mentally imbalanced to do the things he did, but that can’t be said of everyone who does evil.   Some clearly choose it. 

Steve jumped in, “Have you heard of CS Lewis?”

“Yeah, he wrote the Chronicles of Narnia.” 

“That’s right,” Steve said. “He also wrote a book called Mere Christianity in which he said that Jesus was a great moral teacher, but you can’t just leave it like that.  To say the things that Jesus said gives you only a couple of options:  either he is a madman on the level of someone who says he’s a poached egg (Darcy laughed nodding his head), or his claims about himself have to be true.” 

“Hmmm…that’s interesting the way you put it.”

“Let me see if I can clarify an important distinction about Christianity,” Steve continued.  “Jesus says that our life is not about improving ourselves morally. Life is not a journey in which we arrive at the end. It’s more like we need to be honest with ourselves. I can’t fool myself about all the mistakes I’ve made, how can I think I’m fooling God? In fact, when Jesus preached his famous sermon called the Sermon on the Mount, he out-Mosesed-Moses. In other words, he took the 10 Commandments and said, ‘Let me show you what they really mean. You think you’re good because you haven’t committed adultery, but when you look at someone with lust you’ve already committed adultery in your heart. When your angry with someone, you are murdering them in your heart.’ Jesus raises the bar so high that it strips us of any sense of being able to make ourselves better.”  

Darcy was nodding his head saying, “I’ve never really thought of it that way before. That’s interesting.”

Steve continued, “So it’s not about saying, ‘Look at me God.  Aren’t you glad I’m on your team?’  It’s more like just throwing yourself upon his mercy because you know you don’t deserve it.” 

“Interesting,” Darcy replied.  “I’ve never looked at it that way before.”  

“And where Jesus comes in is that I need someone to stand in front of me and take the justice my junk deserves so that I’m left with mercy.”  

I jumped in, “That’s why one of Jesus’ apostles, Peter, said, ‘The righteous (Jesus) died for the unrighteous (people like us) so that he might bring us to God.’  We can’t work our way to God, we need a Saviour who can bring us to God.”

A lot more could be said about the conversation (it lasted an hour or a bit more), but this was the gist of it. Darcy was a very warm individual who gave us much more of his time than we anticipated. He thanked us for stopping to talk with him, and he especially thanked us for giving him some things to think about and for the way we gently challenged some of his beliefs. We gave him a booklet on Christianity explaining that we thought he’d be especially interested in reading it.   He thanked us for it, and we chatted a bit more before heading off.  

Steve and I really enjoyed this conversation because we were able to engage Darcy in a way that was natural.  We believe there are many people like Darcy who want to talk about spiritual topics, but there’s not really space in our culture to do that.

Darcy, for his part, wasn’t defensive at all and was really candid about the nagging questions he had about his own beliefs.  Steve and I left encouraged and thankful for the open door to speak about the Gospel of Christ, and wondered optimistically what God would do with this conversation in his life.  We prayed that the seed of the Gospel will grown in his life leading him to come to a true knowledge and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ.   

-----

Luke 19:10, "For the Son of Man came to seek and save the lost." 

"Lord Jesus, Son of Man and Son of God, would you seek out and save TJ who seems to have suppressed the knowledge of you so deeply that he doesn't have much to say. Amen."

Acts 10:38-44, "...God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him. And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree, but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear, not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead. To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

"Almighty God, would you be pleased to reveal Your Son to Darcy.  He has had some exposure to religious teachings and genuinely seems to want to think about these things.  Be pleased to drive home to him what Your holy prophets said, 'Everyone who believes in him receives the forgiveness of sins through his name.' Amen."  

Brandi - 32 years old

Annie and I bumped into Brandi on the campus of SAIT as she was hanging out waiting for class to begin. We found out that she has a Christian background but is currently not practicing. She said she drifted away from the church about 3 years ago as life got busy with kids and a husband and her job which entails shift work.

She described her religious experience as “profound,” “calming,” “empowering.”  When we asked her, ‘If you could ask God one question, what would it be?’ Brandi said that she really didn't have any questions.  “No big questions about the universe, the meaning of life, etc?” I asked.  She said that she is aware that God has blessed her life and for that she is thankful.

“If God asked you, ‘Why should I let you into heaven?’ what would you say?” Brandi answered matter-of-factly, “Because my grandma is there.”  When asked to rate her goodness, she said she was at seven. 

We gave Brandi a booklet on the gospel.  We went on to explain that the Bible teaches that we have all broken God's commandments ––everyone has. And God must judge righteously according to his perfect standard. Brandi was nodding her head in agreement. We went on to explain that Jesus died on the cross in the place of people like us––people who had broken God's law. He is the righteous one who died for the unrighteous.  I could see the wheels turning in Brandi’s mind as she was nodding.  This was not unfamiliar to her, but she didn’t seem like she had a good grasp on it.

We went on to say that is not enough simply to know these truths, we must embrace them ourselves. At this point, Brandi said that she does want to get back into church and into these things, but she has found that life is too busy as she has to work on Sundays and is going to school and trying to raise a family.

We told her about New City Church, and that we would welcome people just like her--people from a wide variety of backgrounds and questions––and we would be honored to help her on her spiritual journey.   I told her that we meet just a few blocks north of SAIT and pointed out our website to her.  She said that she would definitely check it out. 

We encouraged her to take the booklet and to read over it and to think on these things more deeply. As she was heading off to class we thanked her for her time in for her conversation.

Reid - 21 years old

Annie and I bumped into Reid up at SAIT as he was sitting on a concrete garden box texting on his phone. He said that he was up to answering some questions from our spiritual questionnaire, and so we began.

We asked him about his spiritual background, and Reid said that he was not “religious” in the traditional sense, but he believes in the earth as our mother and that she gives us energy. He describes his worldview as “grounded,” “open-minded,” and “accepting.”

He would like to ask God, “What is life?” We asked him to clarify what that meant, and he said that he had read a book which describes D M T which is a part of every life and every cell and that his question, “What is life?” is the question that that book entertained.

“If God exists anywhere to stand before him and he said, ‘Why should I let you into heaven?’ what would you say?”

“That's a good question,” Reid said as he pondered it for a moment. “I think I would say that I have lived my life for me. Do whatever you choose.”

Reid would rate his goodness at 5 or 6, halfway between good and evil “for balance.”

“That's the end of the questionnaire,” I said. “Do you mind if I ask you a few more questions?”

“Sure. Go-ahead.”

“You said that you believe in mother Earth and that she gives us energy. Is that something you've always believed, or is that something you just recently begun to believe?”

“My girlfriend's family is very spiritual.  They've taught me a lot. For example, they have taught me to go out to the mountains to take off my shoes as if were standing on sacred ground to put my feet upon the earth to feel the earth and to absorb its energy.”

“Does that appeal to you because you feel disconnected from this world?”

“Yeah. I think a lot of people feel disconnected from this place,” Reid said.

“Did you have any other spiritual background growing up?  Did you ever attend a church or were ever a part of a community of faith?” we asked.   Reid simply shook his head.    At this point, he told us about his girlfriend more, and about his studies.  

Trying to wrap things up after about 15 minutes, I gave him a booklet explaining Christianity and said, “You consider yourself open-minded.  You might find this interesting.  It speaks of spirituality from the perspective of what Jesus taught.  You had mentioned that you would rate yourself somewhere between good and evil. This booklet actually has a copy of the 10 Commandments by which we can rightly evaluate our life.”

As Reid was flipping through the book, I asked him if he had ever heard of the 10 Commandments. He said, “No.” I asked him if he had ever seen the classic movie, “The Ten Commandments,” and he had said no.  [Insert a double “Wow!” here].

I told him that I thought he would find the contents of this booklet intriguing, and that it might stimulate his thinking in these areas.   He said he would read it.   “Fair enough,” I said, and thanked him for his conversation, and as we walked away, I looked back and indeed he was reading the booklet.

Looking back on this, I think I should have stayed engaged in the conversation a bit longer, and I wished that I had given him a copy of “The Essential Jesus” to read (which I had in my backpack), but with a headache I wasn’t as quick on my feet as normal.   At any rate, we were able to get a copy of the Gospel into his hands.  Annie & I found a bench and reflected on the conversation, and Annie prayed for Reid.   

-----
Acts 18:26, "From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live.  God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.  For in him we live and move and have our being."

Lord God, would you reveal yourself to Reid.  With is background, he has not even heard of the 10 Commandments until this conversation.   Please use the Gospel to speak deeply to him, and draw him to yourself.

Jeremy - 51 years old

Annie & I met Jeremy on the campus of SAIT taking a break, resting in the shade, and watching the people go by. When we asked him if he'd be up for answering a questionnaire, he said with a big smile, “Sure!”

“What is your spiritual background?”

“A.A.”

“Okay, any other spiritual influences in your background?”

“I guess Roman Catholic,” he said.  “My parents were catholic but they're not practicing and it's really hasn't had an influence on my life.”

“What words would use to describe your religious experience?”

“God shots.”

“God shots?” I queried.  “I’m not familiar with that.”

“God shots are like those times of the day when you going around and you're struck with  spiritual thoughts or experiences and you just realize there's got to be something out there--you know, watching over you.”

“Oh. Okay. I think I follow you. What other words would you use to describe religious experience?”

“Unknown.” “Unproven.”

Jeremy would like to ask God, “Where did You come from?”

If God were to ask Jeremy, “Why should I let you into heaven?” Jeremy would say, “Because You let everyone else in.”  And on a scale of 1-10, he would rate his goodness at a 7. 

“Thank you, Jeremy, for answering these questions. I'm curious about something you said.  Do you mind if I ask you another question.”

“No problem.” 

“Do you believe that everyone goes to heaven?”

Jeremy backpedaled a bit, “No, not everybody.”

“So, some get in and some don't?” I sought to clarify.

“That's correct. There are clearly some bad people who wouldn’t get in.”

“What is the standard that determines who gets in and who doesn't?”

He thought for a moment, “I suppose that it that it depends if you're a good person.”

I gave him the booklet on Christianity and showed him the 10 Commandments and said, “God has given us the 10 Commandments by which we can tell how we have lived our lives.”

Jeremy read the 1st commandment and said, “Oh, I have broken that one.” We talked a little bit about the Commandments and I said that breaking one commandment is like breaking the link in the chain--once it's broken they're all broken.  God sees us as lawbreakers.”

At this point Jerry sent threw out an objection seeking to change the conversation, “You know I think life may be implanted here from outer space.”

“Oh, how do you know that?” I said. 

“Well I don't know it, and I'm not sure that we can know anything, but it makes sense to me. I believe you should just wake up in the morning and say ‘Thank you,’ and realize how blessed you are.”

“Who are you saying ‘thank you’ to?” I asked.

“Just…whoever is out there,” he said.

“Do you think it matters who you're talking to you?”

“Naw.  What’s important is that you are thankful.”

“Jeremy, let me ask you a question. What do you know of Jesus Christ?”

“Not much. I think he was a good man who taught a lot of good things and he is worth listening to. I think that his teaching and others’ teaching is what is important, we shouldn't get hung up on the person.”

“Jeremy,” I said, “Jesus has some pretty significant things to say. But what is interesting about Jesus is that it was a big deal to him what people thought of him. Other religious teachers put their teaching out front and themselves in the background. They would say, ‘This is the truth as I see it. Go and follow it.’ But Jesus does something different. He puts his teaching in the background, so to speak, and his person in the foreground. He says things like, ‘Follow me.’ He said things like, ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me.’”  Jeremy was taking this in.

I continued, “If what the Bible says is true, and we have all broken God's commandments, it is huge what Jesus said. He said that we all stand condemned and we must believe in him in order to receive forgiveness and eternal life.  Don't you think it would be wise to give attention to someone like Jesus?”

“I suppose,” he said. “But I like hanging out here and watching the girls walk by,” he laughed.

“And that's part of the problem, Jeremy.  He sees everything that we do and he knows all our thoughts. And the Bible says that we will all one day die and stand before God and give an account for our lives.  Nothing is more important than to take these things seriously.”

He was nodding his head.  

“Jeremy, I want you to take this booklet and seriously consider your life in light of what it says.  If Jesus is who he says he is, then this means everything.”  He continued nodding his head.  “Will you read it and reflect on what the message is saying?” 

Nodding, he said, “Yeah, I will.”  

“Fair enough.” 

We thanked him for answering our questions and for the conversation.   Annie & I went off and debriefed about the conversation and prayed for Jeremy.   Would you join us?  

----

John 6:68, "Simon Peter answered him, 'Lord, to whom shall we go?  You have the words of eternal life."

Lord Jesus, I pray that you would reveal yourself to Jeremy in such a way that he will know that there is no life outside of you, and that he would run to you for eternal life.